为什么没有更多的女性在掌权的地位？- 乔丹·彼得森（Jordan Peterson）

来源：Jordan Peterson - Women in High Paying Jobs
         乔丹·彼得森 - 在高薪工作的女性

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There are women who are very good in high school, then they go to college, they're very good in college. They nail their damn grades, they do their studying, they get their A's and they ace their LSATs, so they are smart too. Then they go off to do their articling and they're really really good at it and then they get offered an Associate position and they're really really good at it, and then by the time they're 30 they make Partner and let's say they're in high-pressure, high-paying jobs. Two hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year, three hundred thousand dollars a year, five hundred dollars an hour, okay. What's your life like? You work all the time. Period. 70 hours a week, 75 hours a week, flat out, and you don't get to make any mistakes. And if your client calls you at 3:00 in the morning on Sunday you say I'm really glad to hear you, hear from you, because if you don't there's some hot law firm in New York that will take your client from you at a moment's notice and the client is paying you whatever the firm... 750 dollars an hour of which maybe you get $350 and what they want is an answer about something really complicated right bloody now.
有些女性从高中的时候就非常成功，去了大学也很成功。她们成绩很好，学习用工，学科得A，LSAT也考得很好，证明她们也很聪明。之后他们去给别人提供法律服务，做得也非常好.之后她们去协理职位，做得也非常好，等她们到30岁的时候他们就成为合伙人了。所以说她们在高压力，高薪的工作。一年25万，30万这样，一小时500美金。所以，你的生活会是什么样的呢？你会一直在工作，毋庸置疑。一个星期70个小时，75个小时，非常艰苦，而且你不能做任何失误。而且如果你的客户在周日凌晨3点打电话给你，你会说“我很高兴接到你的电话”。因为如果你不这样的话，某个在纽约的火爆的事务所会在一瞬之间抢走你的客户。客户会给你们公司750美金一小时，你能得到大概350， 用来在打电话的此时此刻闻讯一些非常复杂的问题。

And you can say all you want about the fact that women have a difficult time with that, because it's a male-dominant patriarchy any who... any female lawyer who's hit 30 and is a Partner that has any sense at all, knows that's complete bloody rubbish. It's market-determined right to the core. What happens to the women when they're in their 30s. They all leave the high-end law firms. Why? 'cause who in their right mind would want to live like that? That's the issue, right. Once you make about $60,000 a year for your family, but let's say for you personally, additional income makes zero has zero impact on your quality of life. Zero. So, why work 80 hours a week? Well men will do it, some men. Very few. A handful of hyper-competitive men, who are obsessed with hitting the pinnacle of the given dominance hierarchy they're in, will happily work 80 hours a week and they'll forego everything else: relationships, family, children... way in the second category. And so those men are often very difficult to live with, too, because they're so obsessed with their career. It's hard to have a relationship with them and maybe they don't have much of a relationship with their kids, but they're damn good at what they do. And part of that is, is they're smart and disciplined and they'll work non-stop, all the time. It's like an obsession. And that's the sort of people who run things. Those are the people who run things. Well, they're often also disagreeable too, because you ought to manage people? Really? They're not going to like you. You know, it's not an easy thing to not be liked. And actually if you're an agreeable person, and women are more agreeable than men, it's quite painful to be disliked. But if you're in a managerial or in an executive position the probability that people are going to like you is quite low. Now, if you're a real son of a bitch, then they're going to dislike you more. But it's those positions are very stressful partly because of the interpersonal dynamics, and they're also incredibly, incredibly competitive.
你可以说女性会很难适应，是因为这是个男性主导的父权社会...任何一个到了30岁的女性合伙人，如果她有任何理智的话，会告诉你那是个完完全全的谬论。这所有的都是由市场决定的。当这些女性到了30岁的时候会发生什么？她们都会离职。为什么？因为什么有脑子的人会想过那样的生活？这才是问题。因为当你的收入达到了6万美金一年的时候，假如对你个人的生活来讲，更多的收入对你生活没有任何的影响，零。






所以，为什么要一周工作80个小时呢？男性会去做，有些男性会去，非常少。一小撮极端有竞争性的男性，他们痴迷于到达自己等级制度的顶端。他们会很高兴地一周工作80个小时，而且会放弃所有其它的事情：人际关系，家庭，孩子...都排在第二等分类里。这些男性也非常难以相处，因为他们对事业太痴迷了。很难与他们有很好的关系，他们可能跟孩子关系也不好，但是他们在事业上是真的很能干。有一部分的原因是，他们很聪明，很有纪律，而且会在所有时间里不停地工作，真就像着了魔一样。这就是管理事务的那种人。他们通常也是不合善的，因为他们要管理别人。别人不会喜欢你，不被喜欢也不是件轻松的事。而且如果你是一个合善的人，不被喜欢会令你很伤心（*注1），。但是如果你是在一个管理者或者总裁的地位，人们喜欢你的可能性是非常低的。如果你真是一个混蛋的话，他们会更讨厌你。但是就是这些职位是非常有压力的，部分原因是因为复杂的人际关系，而且这种职位非常，非常有竞争性。


So the women hit that at 30 and they're completely qualified, and the law firms are bloody desperate to keep them. Because it's really hard to find highly qualified people. Especially once you put all that time into training, especially if they're also good at bringing in business. The law firms trip over themselves to try to keep them They can't. The women think: "Why in the world am I doing this?" "Why in the world would anyone in their right mind do this?" Especially because they're often married by that point too, and generally they've married a husband who makes as much money or more than them, so they don't need the damn money. And so they think: "Well there's more to life than this." which is exactly the right thing to think. And so then they go and find a job that's 9:00 to 5:00 and controllable. So that they can hire a nanny and have some kids and have a life, and it's like "Yes, that's the intelligent thing to do." So, we've got things backwards in our culture. We're thinking, at least in part, why aren't there more women in positions of power? Wrong question. the right question is: why are there any men at all who want those positions of power? Because it's not just positions of power. You have to be such a nut-head to think that 'Oh, it's a position of power!" It's like, sure, but it's a position of overwhelming responsibility. And if you make mistakes. You're done. Right? It's not like you occupy that position of power and everyone does what they're told all the time and your life is easy. It's like, forget about that. People are on your case to do exactly the right thing all the time. 100% of the time. And maybe you want that, maybe you don't. So, what I don't know what... people think, it's these people are all sitting in their offices with their, like, feet up on the desk smoking cigars and oppressing the world. It's like that isn't how it works. Those people they work flat out, all the time.
当这些女性到了30岁，他们也完全够资格，事务所们都绝望地想留住他们。因为寻找非常够资格的人才是很难得。尤其是用那么多的时间对她们进行了训练，尤其是如果她们很擅长带来生意。事务所们非常焦虑地想要把她们留住却不能成功。这些女性们在想“为什么我在做这个？”“为什么任何有脑子的人会做这个”。尤其是到这个岁数她们大多数也结婚了，而且通常他们的丈夫会跟她们挣差不多的钱或者更多，所以她们不需要那些钱（*注2）。所以她们会想：“生命中还有其他的意义。”，这是完全正确的想法。所以她们会去找一个从早9点到晚5点的工作，能控制的工作。能让她们雇一个保姆，有几个孩子，也享受一下生活。这才是聪明的活法啊。所以，我们的文化里把问题搞反了。我们在想，一部分上来说，为什么没有更多的女性在掌权的地位？这个问题就是错的。正确的问题是：为什么会有任何男性想要这些掌权的地位？因为这不单单是个掌权的地位。你得是多愚昧才会想：“哦，这是个掌权的地位。”。就像是，没错，但这也是个有着能把人压倒的责任的地位。如果你犯了任何失误，你就完了，识得唔识得呀? 现实不是如果你有了掌权的地位所有人就会做按照你说的然后你就很轻松。把这种想法忘了吧。人们都在指望你时时刻刻都做出正确的指示，100%的时候。或许你喜欢这种感觉，或许你不喜欢。所以，我不知道，人们为什么这么想，好像这些人就是坐在他们办公室里的椅子里一边把脚翘在桌子上抽雪茄一边压迫世界。根本不是这么玩的。这些人的工作时时刻刻都非常艰辛。

So, and it's fine if that's what you want, and some people are like that. They're hyper-industrious people, right, from a trade perspective. No matter where you put them. If you put them in a forest with an axe they just wander around chopping down trees non-stop, right. 'cause they're, it's built into them. But if you want to have a balanced life, and you should want that. You know, because the other thing you'll find, this is God's gospel truth. Is that, the older you get if you have any sense, at all, the more important your family is to you. Like the utility of your career, maybe that peaks around 35 or 40, and it starts to decline pretty rapidly after that. And what happens, if you're fortunate, you have someone in your life that you love that you've woven yourself together with, and you have some kids So that you have something to do from the time you're 50 till the time you're 80.
如果你想要那样的生活，没有问题。有一些人就是像那样的。他们是非常有工业性的人，从商业的角度来说。不管你把他们放在哪里。如果你给他们一把斧子把他们放在森林里，他们就会不停地开始砍树。因为这就是他们生来的本性。但是如果你想有一个均衡的生活，而且你应该想。你们知道，另外一件你们会发现的事情是，而且我感觉这是上帝的福音真理：“你越老，如果你有任何理智的话，你的家庭对你就越重要”。你事业的价值，在35岁或者40岁的时候就到顶了，之后就下跌地很快。如果你很幸运的话，到那时候，你就会有一个生活编织在一起的一个你爱的人，会有一些孩子，让你在50岁到80之间有些事情干。


And so, it's a real mistake. It's a barren future without children. Man, I can tell you that. It's a real mistake. And so we do a terrible job of... Say putting that image forward and saying, "well yeah." Now, you know, because women have access to the birth control pill now and can compete in the same domains as men, roughly speaking, there is a real practical problem here. It's partly an economic problem now, because when I was roughly your age it was still possible for a one income family to exist. Well, you know that wages have been flat except in the upper 1%, since 1973. Why? Well, it's easy. What happens when you double the labour force? What happens? You halve the value of labour. So, now we're in a situation where it takes two people to make as much as one did before. So we went from a situation where women's career opportunities were relatively limited, to where they were relatively unlimited and there were two incomes, to where, and so women could work, to a situation where women have to work and they only make half as much as they would have otherwise and now we're going to go into a situation this is the next step whereas women will work because men won't. and that's what's coming now. So we there is an Economist article showing that 50% now of boys in school are having trouble with their basic subjects and you look around you in universities you can see this happening. I've watched it over decades. I would say 90% of the people in my personality class are now women. There won't be a damn man left in university in ten years, except in the STEM fields, And it's a complete bloody catastrophe. And it's a catastrophe for women, because I don't know where the Hell are you going to find someone to to have a... You know, to marry and have a family with, if this keeps happening. So, and you think when you're 19 because you're so clueless when you're 19. You don't know a bloody thing. You think: "Well I'm not really sure I want children anyways." It's like, oh yeah, you tell how well you've been educated. Jesus. Dismal, dismal.
所以，这是个真正的失误。没有孩子的未来是枯燥的。我可以保证，这是个真正的失误。而且我们对于说明这种情景做得完全不够。你们知道，因为现在女性有了生育控制的手段从而，大概来说，可以和男性在同样的领域里竞争，这造成了一个实际上的问题。这一部分是一个经济上的问题，因为我在你们这么年青的时候，单收入家庭还是可以存在的。你们知道，除了最高的1%，工资自1973年以来一直没有增长。这个问题简单。当你有了双倍的劳动力的时候会发生什么？会发生什么？你把劳动力的价值减半了。所以我们现在的情况就是两个人跟以前一个人挣得一样多。所以我们从女性的就业机会非常有限，到没有限制，一些女性可以选择去工作来挣第二份收入，到今天女性必须工作因为一人只能挣到过去一半的工资，到下一步就是女性会去工作因为男性不去了，这就是将要到来的。经济学人有一篇文章说50%的男孩在学校里对基本的学科有困难，你在四周看看，在大学里也开始有这种现象了。我观察了好几十年了。现在在我性格课里的90%都是女性。再过个十年大学里都不会再有男性了，除了STEM领域之外。这是个完全的灾难，是个对女性的灾难，因为我不知道你们要怎么去找一个人，去结婚/成立家庭，如果这个现象继续发生的话。所以，在你19岁的时候你想，因为你是19岁所以你没有一点头绪，你在想”哦，我不知道我想不想要孩子”。哦，嗯，你告诉我了你的教育怎么样。耶稣啊，太不幸了，太不幸了。

Without fail I got to tell you. Without fail, I've watched women go through their professional careers. Many, many of them. It's a very rare woman who at the age of 30 doesn't consider having a child her primary desire, and the ones that don't consider that generally in my observation there's something that isn't quite right in the way that they're constituted or looking at the world. Sometimes you get women who are truly non-maternal. You know, by temperament. They did.. they have a masculine temper, disagreeable, they're not particularly compassionate, they're not maternal, they're really not that interested in kids. Fair enough, man. But there aren't that many of them and there's plenty who will not admit to themselves, that that's what they most desperately want.
错不了，我告诉你。错不了，我观察了很多女性走过他们的职业生涯。很多，很多。很少有女性在30岁的时候不把要一个孩子当作首要的欲望的，而且根据我的观察不想要的那些往往在她们自身或者看待世界的方式上有一些问题。有些时候确实会有真正没有母性的女性。从性格上，她们有男性化的脾气，不合善，不怎么有同情心，她们不是母性的，她们真的不想要孩子。好吧，但是这种女性真的很少，更多的是不愿意向自己承认但是却非常想要的那种。

Audience member: Do you think women will be better off if they had kids earlier, focus on their career say in their 30s? *sigh* Who knows, like, it's like... It really is a problem. Now, it's a really tough one. I don't think anybody knows the answer to that because... Yeah. Well... Yeah. Yeah, I can't answer that, because I've seen women do a good job of it both ways. And you did get the odd woman who manages a high-powered career and kids, but Jesus those women, man. like, they buy more powerful microwaves because it'll take 45 seconds to cook the food instead of a minute. And I'm not kidding it's like they're up at five, they exercise for half an hour, they make breakfast, they get their kids ready to work. They go to work, they work 14-hour days flat bloody out, they come home and work for another two hours to get their kids organized. They have a nanny to help them out, then they work for two more hours before they go to bed at like 1:00 and then they're up at 5:00 and they do that again. And I'll tell you you better be tough if you're going to do that, physically too, because you'll just burn yourself to a crisp. I've seen some women manage it, you know. But they're like, they're tough and they're rare. Because that's a hell of a regimen. And then if anything goes wrong, you know. You have a sick kid or something like that. Or there's any sort of crisis in your family. It's just, you know, then it becomes too much. And I don't know the answer to that, you know. I mean, the advantage women have is they live about eight years longer than men. Because testosterone kills men, so... Well, that's right. They pay upfront and gain on the, in the long run. But how... it isn't clear how our society should sort this out. We don't know and it's partly we don't know what to do now that women have control of the reproductive function, it's a big mystery. Yep. 、、
*听众成员：您认为如果女性早一点生孩子，之后再在她们30岁之后再关注于自己的事业，这样是不是更好呢？
*答：谁知道呢，这真是个问题。挺难的问题。我不知道任何人可以回答。嗯，嗯，我不知道，因为我见过女性两种路线都能做得很好。确实有那种可以同时掌控高能职业和孩子的女性，但是耶稣啊，这种女人只因为热食物的时间会从1分钟降到45秒就会去买更高功率的微波炉。我不是在开玩笑，她们五点起床，然后活动半个小时，之后做早点，之后把孩子们准备好，他们就去工作了。工作14个小时后回家，她们再花两个小时照顾下孩子，她们有保姆帮忙。之后她们在工作两个小时，等睡觉的时候就凌晨一点了。之后她们再早上五点起来再做一遍同样的事。我告诉你如果你想要这么做的话你得很强硬，身体上也是，因为你会把你自己燃烧地够呛。我见过一些女性能做这些。但是她们特别强硬，也特别稀少。因为这个作息太艰难了。而且一旦出了什么问题，比方说你孩子生病了的话，或者你家里有任何什么问题的话，就太难了。我不知道怎么回答。女性有一个优势，就是她们平均来说比男性多活八年，因为睾酮会杀男性。所以，她们先付出，之后在长远的地方得到回报，但是我们的社会该怎么应对这个现象也是不清楚的。我们不知道怎么办部分上来说是因为女性现在可以控制生育系统了，这是个问题，嗯。

*Audience member starts to speak.. part of is inaudible* "Even if women were to enter the workforce later on, they .... competition with people who are younger "..and that's always a conflict in the workforce that people are always" "hiring younger talent, because..." Yeah. Yes. Well, and the thing is: young stupid people have the advantage of being young. Middle-aged stupid people have the disadvantage of being middle-aged. And so if you're going to hire a young stupid person or a middle-aged stupid person you'll go for the young stupid person. And by stupid I mean, you know. I'm being sarcastic obviously. But I mean, without experience and just getting started in the world. You're much more likely to favor someone young because there's an instant explanation for their relative cluelessness. And it's a problem, you know. So, so I don't know what the answer is, but one answer certainly is, at least in part, is to start letting young women know what being thirty and being female is like, because, and also to disabuse them of the notion that there's something magical about a career. First of all, most people don't have careers, man. They have jobs. And the reason you get paid for a job is because you're being asked to do things you wouldn't do unless you were being paid. And so, it's not some utopia of cigar smoking with your boots up on your desk. That's for sure. Not that would be such a utopia to begin with.
*听众成员：（部分听不清）如果女性晚一点进入劳动力的话，那么她们就要跟更年轻的人竞争，这就是个问题，因为人们总是倾向于雇佣更年轻的人才。
答：对。愚昧的年轻人有年轻的优势。愚昧的中年人有中年的劣势。所以如果你要在愚昧的中年人和年轻人里选的话，你会选那个愚昧的年轻人。说愚昧，我在这里当然是讽刺的意思。我的意思是没有经验，刚进入社会的人。你会很倾向于选年轻人的人因为他们相对的无知有一个很明显的解释。所以，我不知道怎么回答。但是有一个重要的一点是，我们应该开始告诉年轻的女性到了三十岁是什么感觉，而且还应该告诉她们事业不是那么美好的。首先，大部分人没有事业，他们有的是工作。而你做工作有报酬的原因就是你是被叫去做一件没有报酬你不会去做的事情。所以，那不是个抽雪茄翘脚的乌托邦。这是肯定的。当然也不是说那样的世界就是个乌托邦。

注释：
注1. 女性整体上来说比男性更合善
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Colin_Deyoung/publication/51594567/figure/fig10/AS:202723225018385@1425344391433/Overlapping-distributions-of-Agreeableness-for-men-and-women-Vertical-axis-indicates.png
Figure 10 from Weisberg, Yanna & Deyoung, Colin & Hirsh, Jacob. (2011). Gender Differences in Personality across the Ten Aspects of the Big Five. Frontiers in psychology. 2. 178. 10.3389/fpsyg.2011.00178. 
我顺便说一下：为什么男性暴力犯罪比女性暴力犯罪多很多（75%：25%）？就是因为暴力犯罪是由极端不合善的人做的，而男性女性虽然平均合善度没有差很多，但是极端不合善的人男性却多很多。这里也是相似的情景，高级掌权的工作也是一个极端。*当然这我也是从Peterson的另外一个Lecture里听来的。

注2. 女性有嫁给比她们阶级更高的男人的倾向（Hypergamy）

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附：
鉴于这篇文有些有争议的地方，我来总结下主体的观点：1.只有极低和善度的人才适合掌权的地位和其连带的生活方式。2.和善度在群体里呈正态分布。3.男性和善度平均值比女性平均值稍低。4.但是这个平均值上的微小差异让极低和善度的男性比极低和善度的女性的数量要明显地多很多。5.所以更多的男性在掌权的地位。

参考：
     Jorden Peterson

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