如何评价中国的航天事业?

如题,美国能搞出波音洛马空叉等一系列超级运载火箭,还有空叉极高速的技术迭代,这都是曾经的技术资本。
我想问的是,美苏争霸时期,苏联能刚放卫星,美国就立刻跟进。刚把人送出卡门线不到十年,就把人送上了月球。中国为什么不能做到这些呢?中国的技术不会比60年代的美苏还要差吧,经济上也坐拥世界上最多韭菜,为什么搞来搞去,快五年了才扭扭捏捏地射了个长五?
我个人的猜想是有两个,第一个是中国和美国的竞争并没有苏联和美国的竞争那么明显,但这完全是扯淡。美国在高新技术上和中国已经针尖对麦芒了。第二个是因为中国比较弱,这是因为当时美国对苏联的制裁肯定至少不弱于现在对中国的制裁,苏联都起码搞出了和平号,还整了个菊花怪N1登月和暴风雪,我们之前吃尽了各种红利,结果卫星上天几十年了才把人送上去,放了个二代空间站粉红高潮得不能自拔。
仁波切尿袋王 89年在洛杉矶买房,贯君孙瑶是我的私生子,王健案主谋,喜欢双修吃阴枣,除了手指硬哪里都不硬
目前的中国航天事业不是在受意识形态或者资本利益驱动而是在用爱发电。

https://www.bilibili.com/video/av1294926/

     TEXT OF PRESIDENT JOHN KENNEDY'S RICE STADIUM MOON SPEECH



President Pitzer, Mr. Vice President, Governor, Congressman Thomas, Senator Wiley, and Congressman Miller, Mr. Webb, Mr. Bell, scientists, distinguished guests, and ladies and gentlemen:

I appreciate your president having made me an honorary visiting professor, and I will assure you that my first lecture will be very brief.

I am delighted to be here, and I'm particularly delighted to be here on this occasion.

We meet at a college noted for knowledge, in a city noted for progress, in a State noted for strength, and we stand in need of all three, for we meet in an hour of change and challenge, in a decade of hope and fear, in an age of both knowledge and ignorance. The greater our knowledge increases, the greater our ignorance unfolds.

Despite the striking fact that most of the scientists that the world has ever known are alive and working today, despite the fact that this Nation¹s own scientific manpower is doubling every 12 years in a rate of growth more than three times that of our population as a whole, despite that, the vast stretches of the unknown and the unanswered and the unfinished still far outstrip our collective comprehension.

No man can fully grasp how far and how fast we have come, but condense, if you will, the 50,000 years of man¹s recorded history in a time span of but a half-century. Stated in these terms, we know very little about the first 40 years, except at the end of them advanced man had learned to use the skins of animals to cover them. Then about 10 years ago, under this standard, man emerged from his caves to construct other kinds of shelter. Only five years ago man learned to write and use a cart with wheels. Christianity began less than two years ago. The printing press came this year, and then less than two months ago, during this whole 50-year span of human history, the steam engine provided a new source of power.

Newton explored the meaning of gravity. Last month electric lights and telephones and automobiles and airplanes became available. Only last week did we develop penicillin and television and nuclear power, and now if America's new spacecraft succeeds in reaching Venus, we will have literally reached the stars before midnight tonight.

This is a breathtaking pace, and such a pace cannot help but create new ills as it dispels old, new ignorance, new problems, new dangers. Surely the opening vistas of space promise high costs and hardships, as well as high reward.

So it is not surprising that some would have us stay where we are a little longer to rest, to wait. But this city of Houston, this State of Texas, this country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them. This country was conquered by those who moved forward--and so will space.

William Bradford, speaking in 1630 of the founding of the Plymouth Bay Colony, said that all great and honorable actions are accompanied with great difficulties, and both must be enterprised and overcome with answerable courage.

If this capsule history of our progress teaches us anything, it is that man, in his quest for knowledge and progress, is determined and cannot be deterred. The exploration of space will go ahead, whether we join in it or not, and it is one of the great adventures of all time, and no nation which expects to be the leader of other nations can expect to stay behind in the race for space.

Those who came before us made certain that this country rode the first waves of the industrial revolutions, the first waves of modern invention, and the first wave of nuclear power, and this generation does not intend to founder in the backwash of the coming age of space. We mean to be a part of it--we mean to lead it. For the eyes of the world now look into space, to the moon and to the planets beyond, and we have vowed that we shall not see it governed by a hostile flag of conquest, but by a banner of freedom and peace. We have vowed that we shall not see space filled with weapons of mass destruction, but with instruments of knowledge and understanding.

Yet the vows of this Nation can only be fulfilled if we in this Nation are first, and, therefore, we intend to be first. In short, our leadership in science and in industry, our hopes for peace and security, our obligations to ourselves as well as others, all require us to make this effort, to solve these mysteries, to solve them for the good of all men, and to become the world's leading space-faring nation.

We set sail on this new sea because there is new knowledge to be gained, and new rights to be won, and they must be won and used for the progress of all people. For space science, like nuclear science and all technology, has no conscience of its own. Whether it will become a force for good or ill depends on man, and only if the United States occupies a position of pre-eminence can we help decide whether this new ocean will be a sea of peace or a new terrifying theater of war. I do not say the we should or will go unprotected against the hostile misuse of space any more than we go unprotected against the hostile use of land or sea, but I do say that space can be explored and mastered without feeding the fires of war, without repeating the mistakes that man has made in extending his writ around this globe of ours.

There is no strife, no prejudice, no national conflict in outer space as yet. Its hazards are hostile to us all. Its conquest deserves the best of all mankind, and its opportunity for peaceful cooperation many never come again. But why, some say, the moon? Why choose this as our goal? And they may well ask why climb the highest mountain? Why, 35 years ago, fly the Atlantic? Why does Rice play Texas?

We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too.

It is for these reasons that I regard the decision last year to shift our efforts in space from low to high gear as among the most important decisions that will be made during my incumbency in the office of the Presidency.

In the last 24 hours we have seen facilities now being created for the greatest and most complex exploration in man's history. We have felt the ground shake and the air shattered by the testing of a Saturn C-1 booster rocket, many times as powerful as the Atlas which launched John Glenn, generating power equivalent to 10,000 automobiles with their accelerators on the floor. We have seen the site where the F-1 rocket engines, each one as powerful as all eight engines of the Saturn combined, will be clustered together to make the advanced Saturn missile, assembled in a new building to be built at Cape Canaveral as tall as a 48 story structure, as wide as a city block, and as long as two lengths of this field.

Within these last 19 months at least 45 satellites have circled the earth. Some 40 of them were "made in the United States of America" and they were far more sophisticated and supplied far more knowledge to the people of the world than those of the Soviet Union.

The Mariner spacecraft now on its way to Venus is the most intricate instrument in the history of space science. The accuracy of that shot is comparable to firing a missile from Cape Canaveral and dropping it in this stadium between the the 40-yard lines.

Transit satellites are helping our ships at sea to steer a safer course. Tiros satellites have given us unprecedented warnings of hurricanes and storms, and will do the same for forest fires and icebergs.

We have had our failures, but so have others, even if they do not admit them. And they may be less public.

To be sure, we are behind, and will be behind for some time in manned flight. But we do not intend to stay behind, and in this decade, we shall make up and move ahead.

The growth of our science and education will be enriched by new knowledge of our universe and environment, by new techniques of learning and mapping and observation, by new tools and computers for industry, medicine, the home as well as the school. Technical institutions, such as Rice, will reap the harvest of these gains.

And finally, the space effort itself, while still in its infancy, has already created a great number of new companies, and tens of thousands of new jobs. Space and related industries are generating new demands in investment and skilled personnel, and this city and this State, and this region, will share greatly in this growth. What was once the furthest outpost on the old frontier of the West will be the furthest outpost on the new frontier of science and space. Houston, your City of Houston, with its Manned Spacecraft Center, will become the heart of a large scientific and engineering community. During the next 5 years the National Aeronautics and Space Administration expects to double the number of scientists and engineers in this area, to increase its outlays for salaries and expenses to $60 million a year; to invest some $200 million in plant and laboratory facilities; and to direct or contract for new space efforts over $1 billion from this Center in this City.

To be sure, all this costs us all a good deal of money. This year¹s space budget is three times what it was in January 1961, and it is greater than the space budget of the previous eight years combined. That budget now stands at $5,400 million a year--a staggering sum, though somewhat less than we pay for cigarettes and cigars every year. Space expenditures will soon rise some more, from 40 cents per person per week to more than 50 cents a week for every man, woman and child in the United Stated, for we have given this program a high national priority--even though I realize that this is in some measure an act of faith and vision, for we do not now know what benefits await us.

But if I were to say, my fellow citizens, that we shall send to the moon, 240,000 miles away from the control station in Houston, a giant rocket more than 300 feet tall, the length of this football field, made of new metal alloys, some of which have not yet been invented, capable of standing heat and stresses several times more than have ever been experienced, fitted together with a precision better than the finest watch, carrying all the equipment needed for propulsion, guidance, control, communications, food and survival, on an untried mission, to an unknown celestial body, and then return it safely to earth, re-entering the atmosphere at speeds of over 25,000 miles per hour, causing heat about half that of the temperature of the sun--almost as hot as it is here today--and do all this, and do it right, and do it first before this decade is out--then we must be bold.

I'm the one who is doing all the work, so we just want you to stay cool for a minute. [laughter]

However, I think we're going to do it, and I think that we must pay what needs to be paid. I don't think we ought to waste any money, but I think we ought to do the job. And this will be done in the decade of the sixties. It may be done while some of you are still here at school at this college and university. It will be done during the term of office of some of the people who sit here on this platform. But it will be done. And it will be done before the end of this decade.

I am delighted that this university is playing a part in putting a man on the moon as part of a great national effort of the United States of America.

Many years ago the great British explorer George Mallory, who was to die on Mount Everest, was asked why did he want to climb it. He said, "Because it is there."

Well, space is there, and we're going to climb it, and the moon and the planets are there, and new hopes for knowledge and peace are there. And, therefore, as we set sail we ask God's blessing on the most hazardous and dangerous and greatest adventure on which man has ever embarked.

Thank you.
中国主力火箭长征234都是东风4瓦房店再改版,几十年没有本质进步,其实就是和轰6copy的tu16一样就是苏联50年代的弹道导弹,都是赫鲁晓夫援华的那一波一起引进的技术,之后几十年没有新的技术继续输入,你叫他怎么和美国竞争?
到90年代苏联解体了乘机再从俄罗斯引进俄罗斯不要的rd120的技术,山寨成yf100,性能指标反而下降了。
然后可以开始研制新火箭了,就是长征5,6,7。之所以花了快二三十年,是因为光有发动机,舰体储箱之类的技术还没有,于是要么只能东风4的老技术再缝合上去,用钢壳箭体凑合,要么再瓦房店式攻关以及引进和想方设法偷技术,历经无数次失败终于在别人的上一代火箭已经要退役的时候,成功发射了性能是别人一半,价格至少是别人两倍的火箭
minicat 政治立场是人的自由与理想 生活中的自由主义者 思想上的斯多葛主义者 精神盎萨人 天佑吾王!
还是具体说吧。美苏50年代航天成就:发射卫星,载人航天,太空行走,初级空间站,月球探索(很熟悉吧,也就你国现在的水平)
67十年代:登月,航天飞机,太阳系行星探索,间谍卫星,气象卫星,核动力卫星(看看,你国都进不了这一档)
89十年代:gps(你国有北斗不过是沾了电子科技的优势,火箭本身一样垃圾)深空探索(旅行者卫星飞出太阳系)小行星探索,大型空间站,哈勃望远镜
本世纪:火星探索,私人航天,可重复火箭(冷战结束了,航天投资下降)

所以,说你国航天是美苏50年代末就行了,毕竟苏联那会儿就有联盟飞船了(你国的神舟飞船和他外型基本一样,我怀疑是瓦房店产品)而你国现在还在鼓捣氢氧重型火箭呢
垃圾水平。。。现在还没大推力的煤油液氧和氢氧机,本质上二流末的水平。讲个笑话就是中国火箭要大推力还是要靠剧毒推进剂。。

那个是不是叫玉兔登月车还是神马,不是没多久就出问题了嘛。到底完成了多少纸面任务,大概谁都不知道了。

细数中国国防军工企业,稍微懂点的都知道是怎么回事。。。几乎我了解到的所有很有名的单位,都是靠一两个重点型号吃饭的水平。管理就更别提了,我甚至听说过管理很毛泽东化的单位,一把手恨不得印发语录的那种。反正你要是真正的对比某些立项千万的项目,性能和阿里巴巴上二十万的民品比还差点的话,可千万别惊讶
饲养员 半导体行业女博士。
作为一个接触过某院的我

简单总结:官僚主义盛行的垃圾地方
霏艺Faye 图书管理员 https://www.facebook.com/booklove.crown/
http://cn.nikkei.com/industry/manufacturing/34003-2019-01-21-11-30-01.html

我觉得这篇文章,很能说明中共现在的水平啊
不管是载重【处于底端】,还是报价【不敢公开,肯定不是因为比别人低】

为什么中共这么喜欢研究火箭,因为这个是洲际导弹的基础。【除了载重,指标还有射程和速度】
另外一个指标是一箭多少星,比如印度好像是108颗?

这个可以这么理解,我洲际导弹有多个弹头,比如我发射了一枚洲际导弹,但是有23个弹头,他们分散开来
你作为防守方,不知道哪个弹头才是原子弹,就得拦截全部弹头。。。

大概意思就是这样,我觉得中共的各个指标都是落后的
而且成本太高了,压根不敢公开
现在的火箭发射,真的是做公益,用爱发电

PS:印象里,前几年,有个新闻说,有个底层工程师辞职,导致登月计划受到影响
范松忠 黑名单 吾爱人类公敌!宁做伊朗犬,不做中国人!中国、中共、中文,都别想奴役我!习来曼尼和王培尔,来找我啊!有种加我实名制微信抖音啊!我死后,能求得一面美国国旗披上烧掉,或把我烧掉撒入大海,死无葬身之地,也不进中共方舱。誓死反送中,绝不落叶归中!
伟大的中国共产党,在2003年终于实现了1957年的苏修水平,哇,太了不起了!
嫦娥号登月了!哇,我党的胜利!世界第一啊!什么?阿波罗1969就载人登月了?那不管,我党就是无敌!
令我想起這張圖https://i.imgur.com/3pRdRd0.jpg
Nemrac 我们追求善良与智慧
讲讲你国航天的瓦房店例子:

几年前接过一个你国卫星通讯的项目,说是什么多个卫星通信链路整合,提升带宽。我把代码一看,链路调度就是个简单时间轮询。
我就很奇怪,既然大家都姓赵,你国航天部门为什么不把代码外包给华为呢?华为虽然司马,但至少华为的代码还是不那么司马的。
老顽童 童心未泯
中国的技术不会比60年代的美苏还要差吧------------------------中国的技术就是比60年代的美苏还要差!
beark 小熊维尼
之前是好大喜功烧的,现在应该暂时是不会再烧了。

因为:

1、太空竞赛对美帝刺激太大,而且没有什么实际意义

2、有钱还是去造船造飞机的好。

原则上登月和太空站计划都无期限pending了。

顺便说一句,当年我自己就有同学是杨利威那艘飞船计划的。这么说吧,是我就算枪毙我都不会去坐那个飞船的(what? 有的工程师大学本科读了6年?what? 质检是裙带进来的,捞了两年好处就跑了?)
rebecca ? 武器:pincong.rocks/article/14517 说明书:pincong.rocks/article/14649
中国的航天有两个作用

1. 军事
2. 民族自豪感
3. 商业是不可能的,这辈子都不可能的

其他内容没办法细说,账号珍贵。

我赞同 仍波切尿袋王、Lisa、脑惨片的观点。
johnpin1234 新注册用户 (待解除)
据国内老一代航天专家称,国内航天后继无人,所以接连出事。不光航天方面,国内整个研发能力一代比一代差,人人急功近利,抄袭,弯道超车,求一夜暴富。
长江7号甲失败了
然而如今国库空虚
不知道还禁不禁得起再来两发
前几年天天吹的,吹的像快要赶上甚至超越美帝了。
但是这几年spacex崛起后,特别是回收火箭、重型火箭技术成熟以后,中国航天爱好者们也没脸吹了。
e_rain 恭敬天主,救自己和他人的灵魂。
一句话平价:
洛马很强,spacex牛逼,esa和jaxa都不错,NASA万岁≧▽≦!
马一龙我爱你❤
何先生 新注册用户 毛腊肉与习包子
举国体制搞出来的东西。用爱发电往往能有一个很强的开端,但是后续发展很难跟上。

从首发载人(2003)到首次出舱活动再到天宫一号(2011)那阵的势头确实很猛,但是做出成绩后掺进去了太多官僚主义和政绩工程,听说有不少官场内斗。发射玉兔(2013)的时候开始出现一些问题了,到今年两次发射失利可以说一直在走下坡路。

这是“自上而下”(top down)模式不可避免的弊端。只有上面的保护扶持,不让市场从底端进行优胜劣汰那就会一直退步下去。
用来骗山东老干部经费的太空垃圾制造厂...最近多次发射失败,反倒是把垃圾留在了桂枝境内,令人欣慰

**该用户被封禁,内容已自动替换**

分享一下地球猫猫教的核心:

https://pincong.rocks/question/item_id-198635

我们居住的世界是一只巨大猫咪身上的一个小毛球。地球猫猫教的天堂由猫爬架和破纸箱搭建而成,当中充满了鱼、老鼠和猫罐头。地狱里则都是兽医。

三喂一体:Trikitty,猫即世界,万物宇宙都归于一猫;同时猫咪圣主子化身为世界上所有的猫来驯化我们;亦是圣灵,注视着我们的一举一动。

格言:On Cat We Reside,居于一猫。

信徒自称舔主教徒 Cataholic,为什么多一个 a,因为用户名已被占用(炸毛)。那些有幸同猫主子生活在一起的教徒则荣升为铲屎官 puriest,负责猫主子的日常起居。

唯一禁忌:不可有好奇心。偶尔也可以有,但最多只能八次。

信徒可用喵了个咪( pawd)指代圣主,或给主起奇奇怪怪的名字,而不可妄呼主名。祈祷结束语:Faline(音“发懒嗯”)。

如何入教:对着圣主猫咪的圣像呼唤“喵喵喵”即可,有余力可供奉流浪猫救助组织。
黄大闲 新注册用户
体制问题
觉得航天事业重要的,没得权力决定航天事业;
而掌握重要权力的,往往没得这方面的思维,反而将航天事业作为政绩工程和面子工程。

现在有的中国航天,只能是满足人民的YY而已。
fb_china_today https://pincong.rocks/topic/反中国梦系列
比起战舰战斗机,中国的航天导弹水平是更先进一些。不过真正长足发展是在苏联解体以后,获得了一批苏联乌克兰的资料和专家,比如那个登陆月球背面的探测器凝聚力无数乌克兰专家的心血。

这种机会大概不会再有,以后一段时间可以见证中国自力更生的真实水平(瓦房店化)
那北斗相对于gps呢?@刁近平
当前回答字数不足20,是否回复为讨论?
rts 黑名单
化学火箭在阿波罗计划那个时候就已经逼近了人类的极限。
就好比内燃机,它确实一直在进步,比如更高的燃油效率、更经济更环保等等,但它能做的,和几十年前并没有什么区别。
技术进步主要体现在载荷上。像嫦娥工程从探月到登月的效率还是很高的,这个还是有一点的门槛的,以色列和印度的探测器软着陆都失败了。
Shinaphobia 反黨/厭支/中華聯邦/無政府主義/gay/想移民美洲
中國人只對兩件事感興趣,一是研究甚麼東西好吃,二是研究怎麼和人鬥爭,把別人搞下來
nudeboy 荒原
对民用无价值,后续研发资金堪忧,纯投入,难以产生收益,所以很难持续发力
参考中国航天局官网和NASA官网对比就知道了。

习勒特习勒特习勒特习勒特

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遥想当年天安门前,一腔热血。哪知后来为了钱,胡编乱写?欢迎欣赏老胡的评论,简称“锡进评”

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