羟氯喹+锌补充剂可能真的有效,川普能否舆论翻身?

根据MedRxiv的一篇研究,

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.02.20080036v1.full.pdf

【The main finding of this study is that after adjusting for the timing of zinc therapy, we found that the addition of zinc sulfate to hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin was found to associate with a decrease in mortality or transition to hospice among patients who did not require ICU level of care, but this association was not significant in patients who were treated in the ICU. This result may be reflective of the proposed mechanism of action of zinc sulfate in COVID-19. Zinc has been shown to reduce SARS-CoV RNA dependent RNA polymerase activity in vitro [13]. As such, zinc may have a role in preventing the virus from progressing to severe disease, but once the aberrant production of systemic immune mediators is initiated, known as the cytokine storm, the addition of zinc may no longer be effective [17]. Our findings suggest a potential therapeutic synergistic mechanism of zinc sulfate with hydroxychloroquine, if used early on in presentation with COVID-19. However, our findings do not suggest a prophylactic benefit of zinc sulfate in the absence of a zinc ionophore, despite interest in this therapy for prevention. A prophylactic strategy of zinc sulfate should be evaluated to help answer this question.】

大意是氯喹加锌的疗法其实是早期有效的,但需要去ICU的基本无效,毕竟去ICU的主要问题是细胞因子风暴。而之前广传的那个氯喹无效的基本都是重症才给药。
这两天川普又再次推广这个疗法来着,很多只看主流左媒的人,以为这个也跟他之前说的那个消毒水差不多呢,但这次这个不太一样,是有医学根据的。
目前主流媒体包括右翼的fox都不看好川普的这个疗法,但他们都普遍忽略了川普还说要补充锌片来着。现在已经看到很多地方认为左媒漠视生命或者deep state只想卖昂贵新药的说法了
如果六月的双盲实验结果全出来,他们会不会遇到翻车的情况?舆论会怎么样发展?
(然后一个医学频道medcram的视频关于这种疗法的分析居然被youtube删了,也不知道怎么回事)

当然氯喹不能乱吃,谨遵医嘱。锌补充剂的话有些食品含锌量挺高的,可以随便多买点吃吃。
HenkGao 我姓高,叫高老庄
川普的问题不在于这个疗法是否真正有效,而在于一个有巨大影响力的领导人,不应该对专业事务下过多的评论。
jiuqiupeng 观察 辞根散作九秋蓬
楼上一堆说不当使用的,问题是这药在美国又不是OTC,需要医生开药方的,咋可能因为总统推荐就导致不当使用。这充其量就是总统代表政府医疗团队向医生推荐,跟普通人没有直接关系。
有一说一,这些脱离生活的左逼媒体,估计美国人民已经厌烦了,现在我只想左逼去死
在你国之外,翻車是一種非常常見,
甚至只有開玩笑或酸人價值的現象
台灣俗稱海水退了才知道誰沒穿褲子

阿川的錯誤不在於他說了一個看似錯的的事情
他的機會也不是被證實是對的以後,輿論會不會翻車
就算翻案翻車了,他也不會就從此變川神

他錯在他擅自公開說了與他業務範圍無關、
他實際上不懂也只是聽別人說他可以吃、
但是他人亂吃可能會出事的藥劑
這個行為本身是輕率且不負責任的
而且因為他說的場合、他的身分,會讓足夠的人被誤導
就算被證實有效,他的行為仍然是一個錯誤

重點在於他的意圖與輕率
輿論或事實有沒有翻車從來都不是重點
回答一下上面羊城的看法吧。
之前那个出现心率不齐问题的疗法,很有可能是因为大多是是危重症才用,导致给的剂量其实太大了,好像是400mg/天,说实话明显不科学。现在的方法改到一半,每日200mg,风险应该降了很多。
而且,零风险的药肯定是没有的,从大规模防治的角度来看,有效疗法还是应该宣传出去的,风险和收益无法相比,比如纽约就有很多轻症都没有获得有效病毒阻断药导致转危重的,上呼吸机时候已经完全来不及了。
而这次左媒最大的问题是把这个完全当无效的中药看了,但目前证据看可能真不是这样,如果真的有效很可能会大翻车。
阿尔戈洛 观察 MTF,苕之华,其叶青青。知我如此,不如无生。
Quinine can cause serious side effects on your heart, kidneys, or blood cells. Stop taking this medicine and call your doctor immediately if you have the following symptoms:

  • Headache with chest pain and severe dizziness
  • Fast or pounding heartbeats
  • Unusual bruising or bleeding (nosebleeds, bleeding gums, purple or red spots under your skin) signs of infection (fever, chills, mouth sores)
  • Severe lower back pain
  • Blood in your urine


不当使用奎宁会造成心率不齐和心梗,本来就是处方药,川普说要用奎宁预防新冠,没感染就吃完全没用而且对于中老年来说,心率不齐和心梗是致命的,有人去模仿的话后果非常严重,本来奎宁用药就是医生的权力,现在鼓励民众拿奎宁当板蓝根来用。这和习近平推广中药有什么区别?

羟氯喹心脏毒性表现为快速发展的双心室心肌病

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2765499?utm_source=For_The_Media&amp%3butm_medium=referral&amp%3butm_campaign=ftm_links&amp%3butm_term=042420

奎宁实验组里面已经有两人死于心脏病。

On the other hand, there is much we are still learning about COVID-19 infection. There are many patients with a direct myocardial effect from the virus. It is possible that the virus has a direct membrane effect leading to rhythm instability. There are some patients who develop a myocarditis that can range from subclinical to fulminant. These patients are likely to be at higher risk for ventricular arrhythmias as well. There are still other patients who develop vascular abnormalities and thrombosis which could lead to myocardial ischemia and a propensity towards ventricular arrhythmias. The science on this is evolving quickly and is not fully established at this point.

这位医生的观点,武汉肺炎有可能会导致心肌炎和心率不齐,这可能会放大奎宁的副作用。所以奎宁的治疗需要继续研究。

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.07.20056424v2
Chloroquine diphosphate in two different dosages as adjunctive therapy of hospitalized patients with severe respiratory syndrome in the context of coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) infection: Preliminary safety results of a randomized, double-blinded, phase IIb clinical trial (CloroCovid-19 Study)


这篇研究显示了两者均用于治疗疟疾的氯喹和羟氯喹对某些患者可能造成重大伤害,特别是致命性心律失常的风险。试验中的患者还接受了抗生素阿奇霉素,后者具有相同的心脏病风险。美国的医院也使用阿奇霉素治疗冠状病毒患者,通常与羟氯喹联用。

“To me, this study conveys one useful piece of information, which is that chloroquine causes a dose-dependent increase in an abnormality in the ECG that could predispose people to sudden cardiac death,” said Dr. David Juurlink, an internist and the head of the division of clinical pharmacology at the University of Toronto, referring to an electrocardiogram, which reads the heart’s electrical activity.

多伦多大学的专家也表示潜在的心源性心房颤动和心率不齐和奎宁有关。
The FDA does not allow the use of the drug for the prevention of Covid-19, and The American Medical Association, American Pharmacists Association and American Society of Health-System Pharmacists have issued a joint statement opposing the use of hydroxychloroquine for the prevention of Covid-19.

FDA,美国医疗协会,美国药剂师协会,美国社会医疗体系协会联名反对使用奎宁为预防武汉肺炎的药物。真当自己伟大领袖,一句话顶一万句了?
ChingTW 無症狀感染
Hydroxychloroquine實際上已經是幾十年都舊藥,便宜效果好。

川普要吃就隨他吃,只要有醫生指導。
扛麦者 我从不换肩
你川不是按照医嘱吃的么,我估计服用小剂量可能危害小?不过大众还是不要自己乱吃
gratesque I follow Truth
肥皂让人接受都还用了几个世纪,不要低估这方面需要的时间。

要发言请先登录注册

发起人

状态

  • 最新活动: 2020-05-21
  • 浏览: 4203