如何看待中国科学家在恒河猴中植入人类基因？
中国科学家日前培育出11只携带有人类基因的恒河猴，并表示这些猴子的大脑发育表现出接近人类大脑发育的特征，再次在国际间引发科研伦理道德的争议。
Chinese scientists defend implanting human gene into monkeys' brains
By Ben Westcott and Serenitie Wang, CNN
Updated 5:45 AM EDT, Fri April 12, 2019
A Chinese researcher who sparked improved cognitive function in monkeys by implanting human genes into their brains has defended his experiment, which has divided the scientific community.
The research, undertaken by multiple universities and led by the Kunming Institute of Zoology in southwestern China, was intended to shed more light on the evolutionary process which led to human intelligence.
"Brain size and cognitive skills are the most dramatically changed traits in humans during evolution, and yet the genetic mechanisms underlying these human-specific changes remain elusive," said a report published on March 27 in the China-based journal National Science Review.
The research paper said it was the first time such a study had taken place.
One of the lead researchers Su Bing, from the Chinese Academy of Sciences' Kunming Institute of Zoology, said the experiment has been reviewed by the university's ethics board and had followed not only Chinese and international best scientific practices, but also international animal rights standards.
"In the long run, such basic research will also provide valuable information for the analysis of the etiology and treatment of human brain diseases (such as autism) caused by abnormal brain development," he said in an email to CNN.
But scientists who have long debated the ethics of transgenic experiments on monkeys and apes have said the experiment leads researchers down a "risky road."
It is the second gene-related controversy to hit researchers in China in less than six months. In November a Chinese scientist claimed he had created the world's first gene-edited babies,sparking an international outcry.
He claimed to have used a tool known as CRISPR-cas9 to remove the genes that made the children susceptible to HIV. Chinese authorities took a dim view of the experiment, branding it "illegal" and ordering an investigation.
In Su's 2019 study, 11 rhesus monkeys were successfully implanted with copies of the human MCPH1 gene, an important marker for "brain development and brain evolution."
Analysis of the monkeys' behavior and physiology showed they developed in a more human-like fashion, with better short-term memory and a faster reaction time compared to a control group.
[url=https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/21/health/china-gene-editing-babies-intl/index.html][/url]
[url=https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/21/health/china-gene-editing-babies-intl/index.html][/url]Chinese authorities say world's first gene-edited babies were illegal
Their brains also took longer to develop, in a similar fashion to humans.
The research has been criticized by a number of Western scientists. University of Colorado geneticist James Sikela said it was a "very risky road to take."
Sikela and his colleagues had argued in a paper published in 2010 that transgenic experiments on non-human primates raised complicated ethical issues and that enhanced primates would be at greater risk of exploitation and harm.
"These harms render the conduct of this research ethically unacceptable in apes, justifying regulatory barriers between these species and all other non-human primates for transgenic research," the 2010 paper said. The paper did, however, concede the research could be valid in some situations.
In the MIT Technology Review, University of Colorado bioethicist Jacqueline Glover compared the experiment to the sci-fi dystopian movie "Planet of the Apes," in which super-intelligent primates overthrow humans.
"To humanize them is to cause harm. Where would they live and what would they do? Do not create a being that can't have a meaningful life in any context," Glover said.
But Chinese scientist Su accused Western critics, and Sikela in particular, of hypocrisy and recklessness, saying that the project was being unfairly judged by Chinese research "stereotypes."
"Exploring the genetic mechanism of human brain evolution is a major issue in the natural sciences, and we will continue our exploration," he said.
Chinese scientists defend implanting human gene into monkeys' brains
By Ben Westcott and Serenitie Wang, CNN
Updated 5:45 AM EDT, Fri April 12, 2019
A Chinese researcher who sparked improved cognitive function in monkeys by implanting human genes into their brains has defended his experiment, which has divided the scientific community.
The research, undertaken by multiple universities and led by the Kunming Institute of Zoology in southwestern China, was intended to shed more light on the evolutionary process which led to human intelligence.
"Brain size and cognitive skills are the most dramatically changed traits in humans during evolution, and yet the genetic mechanisms underlying these human-specific changes remain elusive," said a report published on March 27 in the China-based journal National Science Review.
The research paper said it was the first time such a study had taken place.
One of the lead researchers Su Bing, from the Chinese Academy of Sciences' Kunming Institute of Zoology, said the experiment has been reviewed by the university's ethics board and had followed not only Chinese and international best scientific practices, but also international animal rights standards.
"In the long run, such basic research will also provide valuable information for the analysis of the etiology and treatment of human brain diseases (such as autism) caused by abnormal brain development," he said in an email to CNN.
But scientists who have long debated the ethics of transgenic experiments on monkeys and apes have said the experiment leads researchers down a "risky road."
It is the second gene-related controversy to hit researchers in China in less than six months. In November a Chinese scientist claimed he had created the world's first gene-edited babies,sparking an international outcry.
He claimed to have used a tool known as CRISPR-cas9 to remove the genes that made the children susceptible to HIV. Chinese authorities took a dim view of the experiment, branding it "illegal" and ordering an investigation.
In Su's 2019 study, 11 rhesus monkeys were successfully implanted with copies of the human MCPH1 gene, an important marker for "brain development and brain evolution."
Analysis of the monkeys' behavior and physiology showed they developed in a more human-like fashion, with better short-term memory and a faster reaction time compared to a control group.
[url=https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/21/health/china-gene-editing-babies-intl/index.html][/url]
[url=https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/21/health/china-gene-editing-babies-intl/index.html][/url]Chinese authorities say world's first gene-edited babies were illegal
Their brains also took longer to develop, in a similar fashion to humans.
The research has been criticized by a number of Western scientists. University of Colorado geneticist James Sikela said it was a "very risky road to take."
Sikela and his colleagues had argued in a paper published in 2010 that transgenic experiments on non-human primates raised complicated ethical issues and that enhanced primates would be at greater risk of exploitation and harm.
"These harms render the conduct of this research ethically unacceptable in apes, justifying regulatory barriers between these species and all other non-human primates for transgenic research," the 2010 paper said. The paper did, however, concede the research could be valid in some situations.
In the MIT Technology Review, University of Colorado bioethicist Jacqueline Glover compared the experiment to the sci-fi dystopian movie "Planet of the Apes," in which super-intelligent primates overthrow humans.
"To humanize them is to cause harm. Where would they live and what would they do? Do not create a being that can't have a meaningful life in any context," Glover said.
But Chinese scientist Su accused Western critics, and Sikela in particular, of hypocrisy and recklessness, saying that the project was being unfairly judged by Chinese research "stereotypes."
"Exploring the genetic mechanism of human brain evolution is a major issue in the natural sciences, and we will continue our exploration," he said.
后来，人来感染了传染病，剩下的事情你们都知道
我认为你们，跟红卫兵没有任何区别。你们听不得任何业内专业的说法，只有情绪，不看事实，不讲逻辑。最可笑的是，你们还反对共产党。拜托共产党比你们这群红卫兵要强，好吗？
我再从专业角度说一次，monkey作为一种model animal，往胚胎里注射transgenic human gene是非常正常的一件事情，不管是用传统的做法，还是先进的CRISPR。 基因就是一段DNA sequence，ATGC，没有什么神秘的，我估计这里很多人估计连基因是什么都不懂。。。不过也正常，专业角度基因真是个复杂的概念。。。
我再从专业角度说一次，monkey作为一种model animal，往胚胎里注射transgenic human gene是非常正常的一件事情，不管是用传统的做法，还是先进的CRISPR。 基因就是一段DNA sequence，ATGC，没有什么神秘的，我估计这里很多人估计连基因是什么都不懂。。。不过也正常，专业角度基因真是个复杂的概念。。。
人总想当上帝
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劉仲敬的理論用來顛覆共產黨政權有什麼欠缺之處？https://pincong.rocks/question/item_id-450108
過於路徑依賴。
阿姨的諸夏不是解決共產黨，而是解決大洪水的。
在劉的理論裏，共產黨不用推翻，到時間它自己就會死。
只是共產黨死了之後，中國依然沒有辦法實現民主，因爲中國人缺乏結社、憲政和法治的能力。
所以中國立刻會陷入無政府主義狀態（大洪水），絕大部分人會在缺乏政府的保護下在很短的時間内死亡并且斷子絕孫。（互害社會）
這種情況在中國古代已經發生過很多次，是歷史事實，并且世界上所有國家改朝換代，只有中國死人最多，可以在幾十年之内，通過内戰屠殺，消滅一半以上人口。（德配下）
劉把這種獨特的現象總結爲：中國人沒有組織國家秩序的能力。（世界文明窪地）
他們都必須像寄生蟲一樣，寄生在一個獨裁者身上才能活，否則就會死去。（費拉無產階級）
那麽，中國人想要提高文明水平，實現民主文明，第一個需要提高的，就是組織國家秩序的能力。
所以劉給出一個解決無政府狀態的方案，就是諸夏。大家都去嘗試著建國，不要統一。
這樣的好處是：
1、可以充分鍛煉各個小國家内人的結社，組織能力。提高“德性”
2、就算這些小國也是個獨裁國家，推翻一個小獨裁者更容易。
總之，就是重走一邊歐洲各個民族國家在現代民主化之前的狀態，才能最終產生出現代民主文明。
==========================================
劉的理論問題在於路徑依賴。
説白了，就是他認爲一個文明不能跨越式發展。
中國人不經過歐洲中世紀那麽幾百年的分分合合，民族國家互相勾心鬥角，頻繁戰爭，是不可能有現代文明意識的。當然 ，經歷完這個過程，“中國人”也就如同“羅馬人”一樣，已經消失于歷史之中了。
很多學者認爲，文明是可以跨越式發展的，中國人無需經過這幾百年的鍛煉，也能直接學習現成的民主國家的經驗，在中共死亡之後，實現民主化，成爲一個現代國家。
比如王劍就是這麽認爲的，他經常跟觀衆互動時說，你怎麽知道中共亡了，天下就一定要大亂呢？你怎麽知道中國人就沒有能力和意願實現民主化呢？
=======================================
我認爲，諸夏有一個問題是，大洪水意味著其他國家不會插手。
但是美國、日本、俄國和印度看到中共下臺的時候，居然不會插手扶植代理人是很難想象的。
就算以劉的馬基雅維利主義的角度看，美俄是一定會插手扶植代理人的。
諸夏戰爭最後一定就是看誰背後的大腿粗，但是美國不可能會扶植兩個代理人，因爲這樣并不划算。
這造成一個結果就是，諸夏就算有，存在的時間不會很長，而且也不會如同劉那樣期望的向歐洲中世紀那樣自然發展。
而是擁有美歐日裝備的某個軍閥會議最快速度解決掉其他所有的國家，不等你民族發明完成就已經一統江山。
大陸不是第一次做這種事情，也不是最後一次，唯物主義者就是這樣，不知道什麼是人，只知道利益和金錢
人只所以為人，不是因為基因，不是因為物質，不是因為財富，權力，社會地位，是因為上帝的祝福，所以基督教文明的世界，發明了人權和自由，而不是基督教文明的世界，好像印度教文明，伊斯蘭文明，佛教文明，就不太在乎什麼人權，但是他們至少有自己的底線
但是大陸和蘇聯，納粹這些人，就完全不在乎人，可以用人做肥皂，可以拿自己的國民來政治鬥爭，可以大清洗，可以大飢荒，甚至斷子絕孫什麼的，拿幾隻猴子做實驗就算不了什麼，下一步就是拿大陸人來做實驗，好像當年731部隊一樣，只是規模更大，更沒有人性而已（其实上次已经做过了，不过没人在乎）
沒有人救的了大陸人，就好像沒有人救的了賭爛鬼一樣，一切都是自作孽不可活
人只所以為人，不是因為基因，不是因為物質，不是因為財富，權力，社會地位，是因為上帝的祝福，所以基督教文明的世界，發明了人權和自由，而不是基督教文明的世界，好像印度教文明，伊斯蘭文明，佛教文明，就不太在乎什麼人權，但是他們至少有自己的底線
但是大陸和蘇聯，納粹這些人，就完全不在乎人，可以用人做肥皂，可以拿自己的國民來政治鬥爭，可以大清洗，可以大飢荒，甚至斷子絕孫什麼的，拿幾隻猴子做實驗就算不了什麼，下一步就是拿大陸人來做實驗，好像當年731部隊一樣，只是規模更大，更沒有人性而已（其实上次已经做过了，不过没人在乎）
沒有人救的了大陸人，就好像沒有人救的了賭爛鬼一樣，一切都是自作孽不可活